BackTable / ENT / Podcast / Transcript #223
Podcast Transcript: Evaluation & Management of Bilateral Vocal Fold Paralysis
with Dr. James Daniero
Never let the sun set on bilateral vocal fold paralysis–timely diagnosis and intervention are key. In this episode of Backtable ENT, Dr. James Daniero, a laryngologist from the University of Virginia, discusses the evaluation and management of bilateral vocal fold paralysis with Dr. Gopi Shah and guest host Dr. Stephen Schoeff. You can read the full transcript below and listen to this episode here on BackTable.com.
Table of Contents
The Power of Precise Language
Bilateral Paralysis: Etiology & Patient Presentation
Outpatient Evaluation & Management
Tracheostomy Approaches & Pearls
Surgical Options to Restore the Airway
Patient Selection for Advanced Airway Surgery
Pacing the Larynx
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[Dr. Gopi Shah]
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the BackTable ENT Podcast. My name is Gopi Shah. I'm a pediatric ENT today, and I have an awesome co-host and an amazing guest. I'm super excited. Let me bring my co-host on first. We have Dr. Stephen Schoeff. He's my co-host today. He's a laryngologist practicing at Washington Permanent Medical Group in Tacoma, Washington. You may remember Steve from BackTable episode 161 on idiopathic subglottic stenosis. How's it going, Steve?
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
It's going great. Thanks for having me back. I'm really excited here to talk with Dr. Jim Daniero, also known as Professor Jim Daniero. He's a laryngologist and was my residency mentor at University of Virginia. It's very exciting to have him on. He's also the director of the voice center there and a co-founder of RefluxRaft, an alginate therapy for reflux and particularly laryngeal symptoms of reflux.
He's here today to talk with us about bilateral vocal cord paralysis in adults or vocal fold paralysis. Welcome to the show, Jim. We'd love to hear, just starting out, about yourself and your practice and help set the stage for us.
[Dr. James Daniero]
Sure. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. It's great to be together with some old friends, some connections over the years.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
Jim and I were co-residents together at Jeff too, so we go far and go back a little bit back, too.
[Dr. James Daniero]
We go way back, yes. We're in the trenches together, for sure. My practice, like Dr. Schoeff mentioned, at the University of Virginia is where laryngology practice is. I founded the voice center there and been there for 11 years. We see all sorts of laryngology presentation there from voice, airway, and swallowing.
One of my real significant interests are in voice and airway, and particularly, I have an interest in this bilateral paralysis and it's a really tricky diagnosis to manage and a lot of different ways to evaluate and treat and talk with patients. Excited to talk about some of those nuances.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
Before we jump into it, can you tell us a little bit more about RefluxRaft? We got to have some of this founder story we had Dr. Spencer Payne on. One of the things that I remember from that episode was imagining you guys, I think it was in your kitchen, Jim, mixing and making the different flavors, I think, of RefluxRaft to see in mason jars.
[Dr. James Daniero]
That's right. Mason jar was our first container. We went through several different iterations to try and come up with what we thought was best for our patients. I think a lot of people are experiencing patients are less interested in long-term proton pump inhibitors because of the side effects. I personally was taking a proton pump inhibitor and was looking for a better solution.
I had some specific thoughts about what could potentially make it even better and consulted with my partner, Spencer Payne, and then we started going through different concoctions. It was like a mad scientist lab in the kitchen. We had stuff that would foam up and create weird reactions, and we were like, "This one's definitely out. It's creating some sort of orange foamy mixture. Let's put that one on the side," and then some other ones.
Ultimately, came up with a recipe that I think is fantastic and seems to be really beneficial. Certainly was life-changing for me. I'm off proton pump inhibitors now and enjoying sharing that with the rest of the world.
The Power of Precise Language
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
Should we jump into our topic today? Before we get into it, actually, this might be a very basic question, but when you'd introduced the topics, Steve, you switched it from bilateral vocal cord paralysis to bilateral vocal fold paralysis. Is there a nuance in that? Can we get into that a little bit?
[Dr. James Daniero]
Sure. When we think about the vocal cords, that's the common parlance we discuss, but really it's a three-dimensional structure. I'm coming from our voice center here and we were just teaching our voice course and going through the three-dimensional anatomy of the vocal folds and describing why it is a fold rather than a cord. It's a three-dimensional structure from the top down view.
We only see it as like a little strip of tissue, but there is some height to it, and that's really important for restoring voice and for restoring proper function of airway as well. Knowing that it is that fold of tissue is really important in talking about any reconstructive options rather than just like a vibrating rubber band that's there in the larynx.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
I think moving into the discussion, when we talk about bilateral vocal fold paralysis, really that's almost a subset of bilateral immobility, particularly in adult patients. Gopi and I were just talking a little bit about the pediatric versus adult components of this, too, beforehand. What's the general presentation that you're experiencing, and what is the breathing like in a patient who's presenting? We can even start with bilateral immobility, and then narrowing into paralysis from there.
[Dr. James Daniero]
Immobility is more of a broader term that includes iatrogenic injury or immobility that is fixation of the vocal folds, not necessarily paralysis. They're commonly used in replace of each other where they just are a misnomer of what actually is happening. We'll see a lot of times-- and our coding, unfortunately, is also off on this. We don't really have a great code for immobility. The best code is the paralysis, bilateral paralysis code to show that the vocal folds are immobile and to come up with our connections with our CPT codes. Unfortunately, we're forced to use that misnomer as well.
Immobility, typically, will refer to either we don't know what the cause is, or we know the cause is not a neurogenic cause. That would be fixation from ankylosis that could be autoimmune, rheumatoid arthritis, ankylosing spondylitis. Sometimes we'll see fixation of the cricoarytenoid joints, and they stop moving, but it's not because the nerve's injured. It's a local mechanical problem rather than a neurogenic.
Then more commonly, what the situation is, is acute laryngeal injury that is healed poorly and caused ankylosis of the cricoarytenoid joint or fixation of the vocal folds by scarring them together. In that case, it's not paralysis, but the immobility shows up and the history is really the differentiator there. There is some sort of intubation or some sort of trauma.
Then the time course is pretty predictable. It's four to six weeks out from that injury, and then you see this fibrotic state setting in as the wound healing progresses. Then they show up with stridor. There become progressively shorter breath and respiratory distress. Hopefully, they seek care of the emergency department or get into an ENT clinic quickly because that diagnosis typically has to be made by a laryngoscopy. Then unfortunately, often, a quick transition to a suitable airway, which is generally tracheotomy.
One more distinction is, in those patients, intubation is a really difficult and dangerous situation. In patients that are paralysis or they have a neurogenic injury, typically, intubation is a little bit easier in those cases because the vocal folds will push out of the way. On presentation for immobility with the ankylosis, with the fibrotic joint, those vocal folds will not separate with intubation and can be really dangerous to approach intubation even fiber-optically. Therefore, those patients typically have to have a tracheotomy placed under an awake, under local anesthesia.
Bilateral Paralysis: Etiology & Patient Presentation
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
For the neurogenic patients, when we think of paralysis, we're thinking about stroke, we're thinking about-- what are some of the other etiologies that come to mind? Are our thyroid patients with that? Is that this group as well, or is that the iatrogenic group?
[Dr. James Daniero]
The bilateral neurogenic injury of the paralysis patients, true paralysis, are often post-surgical. Total thyroidectomy, injury on both sides, or a second side surgery, unfortunately, that has an additional injury, and the anterior cervical spine surgeries. Sometimes even just approaching the spine on one side, there's enough stretch from retractors that both sides can be injured. It's pretty rare, but I have seen a few patients that have had bilateral injury from a unilateral spine approach. Pretty devastating complication, too.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
Those symptoms are going to present quickly, like in PACU?
[Dr. James Daniero]
Most of the time, it is near immediate. You'll notice some noisy breathing, the stridor, shortness of breath. Sometimes it's almost immediate after extubation, and then there's concern for needing to re-intubate. Fortunately, in thyroid surgery, we're actually monitoring nerves frequently now, and we can have some expectation that this might be a problem as we extubate with losing some signal response on the EMG tubes.
In spine surgery, we are often not monitoring at the level of the vocal folds. They're monitoring other nerves typically, and cranial nerves, but may or may not be monitoring the recurrent laryngeal nerve. The only other thing I'd say, I've seen a few from bilateral injury from, unfortunately, strangulation and/or attempted suicide.
In those cases, I've seen that it may not show up immediately that there is some delayed presentation of edema. Maybe there's a neurogenic injury where the vocal folds are in a more lateralized position. Over time, they begin to medialize and obstruct. They may actually present with some breathy hoarseness first, and then slowly, over time, begin to have a worsening shortness of breath from that source.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
I think, obviously, you hit on one of the things that we often have a sense of what's going on in bilateral vocal fold paralysis, in that there may have been an immediate postoperative consultation or something to that effect where we have a pretty good idea of what's going on. Although I've had one or two sneak in in situations where it wasn't obvious, maybe sequential injury, pulmonary thoracic surgery.
What's your approach when you're in this, oftentimes, semi-acute, particularly if you were consulted right away in this patient, although oftentimes, we are getting the patient maybe later in the course to evaluate them? What's your assessment and acuity in how we proceed in stabilizing the airway in this semi-urgent or urgent or maybe even office setting if we're lucky?
[Dr. James Daniero]
It's interesting. A lot of times, as they're coming in, we'll be fooled a little bit, or meaning, the surgeon that is referring in may refer for dysphagia or a little bit of shortness of breath and not be as convinced that there could be bilateral paralysis. They usually have a normal voice.
One of the telltale signs often of paralysis unilateral is the hoarse voice. I think people get lulled into a false sense of security in saying, "Oh, no, the voice is fine. It can't be the cords that are paralyzed, and maybe something else is gone. Maybe it's pulmonary and they're getting nebulizers and different things to treat their shortness of breath," and really, that deep inspiratory breath through the mouth. I usually have my patients demonstrate that for me.
Sometimes you can mask the symptoms, mask the stridor by breathing slowly in through the nose and getting some air through the cords that are very closed without making a lot of noise. People particularly try to compensate and slow the amount of airflow through the larynx to decrease that stridor. What I have them do is I'm like, "Take a real deep breath in through your mouth wide open, and I want to hear what that sounds like." Usually that's going to be the loudest reproduction of stridor as a pretty good indicator that we have at least the vocal folds close together.
It's a little bit different than the stridor we get with subglottic stenosis, like what you talked about previously, Dr. Schoeff. With subglottic stenosis, it's an airway turbulence type of sound. You'll hear some noisy airflow, but in bilateral paralysis, it's a musical quality to it. The vocal folds are actually, they're making voice as you're breathing in, and we call it inhalation phonation. It's a backwards way of making voice. Instead of airflow out, it's airflow in with the vocal folds closed. That musical stridor is a way I like to describe that's really very specific for bilateral paralysis.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
I nod because babies with idiopathic, for example, bilateral vocal cord paralysis have that very similar. Their voices, you hear it. When they cry, it's a nice strong, but when they're crying and they're breathing, that stridor, it has a separate different sound than the laryngomalacia babies. It does have a musical sound when you describe it that way. I'm like, "Oh," because they sound different.
Do these patients, some would you say are commonly in you all's clinic then like four to six, or is it usually in the acute setting, or how often do you see them in the ER, PACU, or in your clinic?
[Dr. James Daniero]
It varies a good amount. I think it's not one presentation or the other. There's certainly post-surgical consultations we get that are right from PACU. Typically, that's our surgeons in house. Then the folks that are referred in, they either have hopefully already have a secured airway and they're coming from another institution where they've had some difficulty. They consult ENT at their place. They don't have the means of any advanced techniques for treating bilateral vocal fold paralysis.
They're going to resort to a tracheotomy, secure the airway, and refer at that point, which I think is totally appropriate. Occasionally, we'll get somebody that comes in and they don't see an otolaryngologist. They aren't scoped. They don't know what's going on and they're sent for an evaluation. They come in and stridor and respiratory distress. Those patients we end up taking to the OR probably that day. We don't let the sun set on any bilateral vocal fold paralysis with respiratory distress.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
It's interesting for me being outside hospital at this point, I sometimes get these presentations without a stable airway. In the clinic, I've actually had a couple now from either PGS or bilateral vocal fold paralysis that have shown up with non-distressed, but not happy.
It creates a really interesting dynamic in how we evaluate this and the idea of trach and send on to the university, which is always, I think, a really safe and good option versus the different options we'll talk about in terms of airway management. It's a very interesting dynamic a little bit being outside the university setting and seeing these as well.
Outpatient Evaluation & Management
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
When you're evaluating this patient, let's assume they're non-distressed and they've arrived in your clinic and we actually don't have a clear history that they do have that glottic, reverse glottic phonation or inhalation phonation, and they've arrived in your clinic. They are not able to do a lot exertionally, but they are not in acute distress. How are you evaluating that patient in terms of in the clinic and then additional evaluation modalities that you might consider?
[Dr. James Daniero]
That's an interesting nuance to these presentations because if they're at a lower deficit from a respiratory standpoint, then there's a lot more options that are open, and we don't have to proceed right to a surgical intervention for the airway. In those patients, I often talk to them about if it's safe, if they have enough of an airway and enough that they can tolerate, we can often wait some of these things out.
Even if we get just one vocal fold moving at a 20% to 30% and the other is still totally paralyzed, that's probably a safe airway. If we can just buy time to get there, and it depends on the timing to the presentation, but if we can buy time to get there, then they may not need any intervention. Now we have to be pretty confident about the reliability of the patient.
I'm often giving them some personal contact information so that if anything does change, that they can let me know immediately and we can guide that intervention to keep the patient safe. Sometimes it's just watchful waiting. Also, there's ways we can wait out recovery with Botox.
If there is, as there's recovery of the vocal fold, sometimes it starts to misbehave. The nerve fibers for opening and closing the vocal fold are all in the same nerve. Sometimes they get miswired, we get synkinesis, we get paradoxical closure with deep inspiration. It's fairly common when you have that bilateral paralysis that you have some of that in the reinnervation phase.
We can Botox the adductors, and it is not a major airway intervention, so I would say if someone is pretty close to respiratory distress, it may not buy you a whole lot, but sometimes it's enough that it allows them to do some activities of daily living without as much distress, walk up a flight of stairs, be able to walk around their home, do their usual routine.
That's non-destructive. It's is a three-month intervention, potentially repeated depending on the timeline to recovery, and we're not burning any bridges. Then fortunately, if they're not in distress, we can also avoid the tracheotomy, and that may be the best route to navigate this in-between symptomatology for the patient.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
I was going to say, do steroids help, is this a Medrol Dosepak type of patient?
[Dr. James Daniero]
It depends on the timing of the injury. Certainly in the acute phase within the first couple weeks, I think sometimes that is beneficial. Typically, I would do that just empirically. Once you're a little bit further out, the data for steroids is a little bit less convincing, and that's even coming from the unilateral paralysis literature.
Then there's a question of Nimodipine, which is also used for accelerating nerve recovery, improving nerve recovery, and it's calcium channel blocker, helps decrease the inflammation in the nerve as it's regenerating, and has some support for it. I can't say that the literature is completely definitive that it's going to help, but it's often fairly low risk. I think blood pressure, low blood pressure is a concern and potentially have to consider some of the other comorbidities with it, but that can be used as well.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
Great. Again, thinking of this patient where we don't necessarily have a history, maybe even they're non-surgical, maybe there's a potential that some other etiologies or any other kind of etiology you're thinking of that could be potentially impactful. Then any laboratory, imaging workup, and even what role EMG might play in that evaluation.
[Dr. James Daniero]
I think EMG can provide some diagnostic and prognostic information. I do not use it a whole lot in my practice because often, it doesn't change the interventions that I offer the patient.
It's a little bit complex depending on clinic setup with having a neurologist available to do an electromyographer to really get the best interpretation and coordinating that visit. Billing is also a concern. Who bills for that? Both of us are not going to get paid for it, so there may be some setups out there that work. For us, it's a little difficult, and like I said, it doesn't change a whole lot what we're anticipating treatment would be.
Then I think the other consideration is whether or not you intervene surgically. Certainly, the tracheotomy, I tell the patients, is the best voice and swallowing and breathing outcome that we have. It is a not great quality of life choice because of the management of a new tracheotomy. As some patients learn, a long-term tracheotomy becomes a little bit easier to manage and they can have a decent quality of life.
It's non-destructive to the larynx, so should there be interventions down the road and additional recovery with time, that may be the best thing, just to secure the airway, use a speaking valve that allows for hands-free speaking, and then just allow things to settle down before they make any moves towards a destructive procedure, such as cutting out parts of the vocal folds to improve the airway.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
It's funny, I think in laryngology, we talk so much about trying to find new options and different options in tracheotomy that we sometimes-- I don't know, I feel like I find myself setting it up to a patient in such a negative way. I'm like, "Actually, there are folks who manage great with it, and it is in some way relatively simple. I have long-term trach patients for different reasons, and many people do great with it."
It's funny that I think we have a tendency to avoid it in situations where maybe it actually would be a pretty good option for some patients, but I totally agree that we often are looking for different things for patients.
[Dr. James Daniero]
I had a patient, he ended up having permanent bilateral paralysis. He had a tracheotomy in during the spontaneous recovery, watchful waiting phase, did not want to pursue any other interventions. For 30 years, he was the announcer for the high school baseball team. He was like, "This gives me life." He's retired, in his 70s, and he's like, "This is what I do." He's like, "I just need to be able to announce the boys baseball team."
He was happy. He had a speaking valve, and he went out there, did the announcing. He could breathe and he was happy. He was just like, "Leave it alone. I can do what I need to do." I gave him a lot of different options, and he said, "No, this is fine. I get quality of life."
I think the other thing you mentioned was a little bit more like workup and diagnostics. Sometimes, when we don't have an etiology, we don't have an injury or surgery predisposing, an MRI of the brain can actually be helpful. We have, obviously, bilateral innervation when we get down to the level of the neck, so it's hard to maybe hit both nerves. When we think about neck imaging, it's a little less than the unilateral, although I still think it's helpful.
Where really the management shifts from unilateral to bilateral paralysis is in looking at the brainstem because that's when the innervation comes close together and is towards the midline, and a single lesion could take out both. I have a few patients with Chiari malformations that have bilateral paralysis, and then certainly any type of tumor of the skull base at the level of the nucleus ambiguus there would potentially hit both nerves.
Tracheostomy Approaches & Pearls
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
Just going back to the tracheostomy, this is just curiosity. When you're going back, I think it was Steve's initial question of, in the acute setting, how do you set up your patient, how do you secure the airway, if you could go into some of those details. Then just for you guys, Bjork flap, no Bjork flap, a 7, those little stay sutures, no horizontal, if we get into some of those details as well.
[Dr. James Daniero]
There's certainly a lot of surgeon preference there. I can tell you a little bit about mine. For the paralysis patients where we're pretty sure that this is not a fixation, this is not a post-laryngeal injury patient, then we can often actually proceed with intubation as they're relaxed. Typically, we can positive pressure ventilate past these passively mobile vocal folds, and so I feel a bit more confident.
Obviously, these are situations that you don't take anything for granted and you're always prepared to proceed with a tracheotomy surgical airway. In those cases, it can be very safe to just put in an endotracheal tube and put the patient to sleep, slide a small tube through. Often, we use a GlideScope or some type of video laryngoscopy to pass the endotracheal tube because you may have more medialized vocal folds, even though they're passively mobile.
It's a little easier to see how to pass the tube without damaging the vocal fold. Last thing we want to do is add another iatrogenic injury as we're intubating, and then proceed with the standard tracheotomy that way. Very different than the bilateral immobility that I talked about previously. Those patients, they're almost fully awake. I really argue strongly for it to be straight local to limit any type of loss of the airway due to some mild sedation. We proceed with those under local anesthesia. As far as technique-wise, I am very partial to a Bjork flap. That's how we train.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
That's how we train, yes. I don't know it any other way than an adult. [laughs]
[Dr. James Daniero]
Yes, there can be some A-frame deformity that happens from damaging a cartilage ring after decannulation. In these patients that don't have an airway above, accidental decannulation is often fatal. I want to decrease the risk of that. Just had too many close calls and things over the years that it just reinforces having the most secure airway possible when we're potentially rolling a patient and a tracheotomy can just come out on post-op day zero or one, decrease that risk. It just makes me feel better. I think we have great ways of dealing with the airway as well if we need to down the road. You can't help somebody if they don't survive the tracheotomy.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
What about you, Steve? What do you like to do?
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
Let's think about it. Absolutely, I'd echo the same considerations in terms of anesthetic and avoiding sedation in the immobility fixation-type patients. With the paralysis patients, you do have definitely more leeway. I haven't gotten to experiment with high-flow nasal cannula or THRIVE. I'm quite intrigued by what that could potentially do in these situations. You'd have to be a little bit aware of the high-oxygen environment, for sure. I think that could be potentially a little bit of a help particularly in the fixation situations that I haven't gotten a chance to explore, really.
In terms of the technique of the tracheostomy, I tend to vary quite a bit whether I use a Bjork flap or not, but definitely, in these situations where you may not have any airway above, I absolutely agree. Just doing anything to make it more secure is quite valuable, particularly since I'm in a hospital setting where there's probably a little less familiarity with tracheostomy and less frequent high acuity patients like you'd have in the university setting.
I don't have residents, I don't have on-call residents who are closely either at the hospital a lot or closely associated. It's a little bit of a different situation where I tend to play things a little more safely for the logistical reasons because I just know that it can be a little harder to support the hospital in that way.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
That's an interesting point. I always have to think about this when I have an older kid that needs a tracheostomy, like the teenager. To me, that's a lot more of an adult airway, because in infants, we're still using vertical incision, we have our stays. In my older kids, I'll do the same thing though as we do in the infants because it's got to be the same in the hospital.
RT and in nursing, if they look at any trach baby, it should be familiar, the same. I still just, in my older kids, just still do a vertical incision like I would in an infant, and then put stays and just do it that way. I'm always like, huh. In the 15-year-old, should I be doing it differently, but usually, that's just how I do it.
[Dr. James Daniero]
We don't operate in a vacuum. We operate in hospitals and they have their routines. Like you're saying, the pediatric hospital is used to one thing. I totally agree with you. Providing that stability, consistency is super valuable.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
I think the stay sutures are a perfectly safe technique, but if someone's not familiar with what to do with the stay sutures and what they are, then it's exactly to Dr. Schoeff's point that this is a institutional learning, often effects of technique because that may be foreign to somebody and that's not going to help if they don't know what to do in the situation.
Surgical Options to Restore the Airway
[Dr. James Daniero]
Part of the excitement of this conversation is really where we're going next, which is what we think about in terms of, okay, so we have a patient. Let's say that we don't have an acute airway concern. We've moved past that phase. They have a tracheotomy, what have you. We're thinking about what options they may have surgically to be decannulated if they have a tracheostomy in or otherwise, alternatives to tracheostomy from some of the more tried and true, longstanding methods out there to some of our newer options that you've been able to offer out on the forefront.
[Dr. James Daniero]
It's really exciting field. Fortunately, it's a pretty rare diagnosis, but it has no really good solution currently. Typically, I'd talk to patients about the whole ladder of interventions. The first option is tracheotomy speaking valve. That requires us not to touch your vocal folds and leaves the door open for future interventions that may be coming mainstream to avoid a destructive surgery.
The next level up from that is actually to perform a surgery. There's suture lateralization to try and decrease the amount of injury to the vocal fold. At least in my hands, when I've done that, there's always been some level of scarring that remains behind even after that lateralization. I haven't seen it dramatically change the amount of invasiveness of that procedure.
Then I think what most people would say is the standard option is the posterior cordotomy or posterior cordotomy plus or minus an arytenoidectomy, and that endoscopic removal of the posterior more airway portion of the larynx, leaving the membranous portion as untouched as possible, but still leaving an airway. Allow some phonation, some vibration, but certainly, I counsel them, it's a significant decrease in the voice.
One of the things is, since their vocal folds are normal anatomically, their voice is very strong and good. Even though their vocal folds are not working, once we create the airway, they're going to have a significant sacrifice in their vocal quality, and that's permanent. Sometimes we can do some little things to titrate and improve vocal quality afterwards, but it's very limited success in restoring normal voice after those procedures.
They're very effective, they achieve decannulation 80% of the time or more. You can get some good results. Sometimes they require revision, sometimes bilateral surgery is necessary, which obviously affects the voice even more. It can be the tried and true way of proceeding with trying to achieve decannulation in the patients that have more severe obstruction up front.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
Just one quick question, your experience with that. I often hear dysphagia mentioned when we talk about those surgeries, but anecdotally, I haven't encountered that. What are your thoughts about how much we should counsel patients about dysphagia afterward and how likely they are to have that?
[Dr. James Daniero]
Great point. It certainly definitely should be discussed with the patient. I think, typically, I present, there's a possibility there could be dysphagia that could be even permanent. More about setting an expectation where they might have some mild choking on liquids. I think it's most common if they do have any symptoms, it's liquid dysphagia. Then reminding them smaller sips, a straw, chin tuck can be some maneuvers that normalize that mild penetration, sometimes aspiration with those.
I think major significant side effects of dysphagia are pretty rare. Typically, when I see that, there's more than just the recurrent laryngeal nerve injury. There's a vagal injury. There's something that is higher up and it's affecting sensation, as well as function. Then those patients are significant risk for aspiration afterwards. Definitely, two different groups to counsel whether it's the severity of the injury, the neurogenic injury to the larynx.
Then moving from there, I often discuss there's some newer interventions. Jean-Paul Marie has really popularized and pioneered the technique of Bilateral Selective Reinnervation. A very significant difference from reinnervation for the unilateral larynx. A lot of times, we'll use non-selective reinnervation. Ansa cervicalis are one of the branches that works very well.
Unfortunately, for bilateral paralysis, we need to restore mobility. We need to restore function. Therefore, selective reinnervation is a much more complex and invasive surgery afterwards, involving up to 10 neurorrhaphies that you have to do in order to restore function because you're trying to restore adductor function, you're trying to restore abductor function, and then you need a signal in to be able to tell the larynx to do either task.
Often involves jump grafts and using a graft from the phrenic, which is difficult to reach the larynx, so you usually need a pretty long graft for that. That technique is typically a branch of the great auricular, which has a nice Y-shape branching pattern to it that can hit the bilateral posterior cricoarytenoids and go to the C3 branch off of the phrenic.
On paper, it's a little complex of which nerve goes to where. In reality, it's even worse because the nerve innervation for the phrenic, the nerve rootlets are highly variable. Finding that C3 branch, sometimes it's not like it is in the textbook, like oh, there's a contribution from each rootlet and you just take the top one, and then knowing that you have the top one and aren't going to paralyze the diaphragm. There's a good bit more that goes into that surgery.
If it works, profoundly impactful for the patient, avoiding a tracheotomy or avoiding a destructive surgery and permanent, I wouldn't say normal function, but if you can get motion back bilateral, it's tremendous. I'd say most often, looking at some of the literature from Jean-Paul Marie and then from his course that he offers, it's more likely to get unilateral function, but unilateral, like we discussed, can be very functional.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
Those patients are not trached ever, or do you put a trach in, secure the airway, do the surgery, see if it works, and then decannulate, right?
[Dr. James Daniero]
Yes. If they don't have a trach at the time that they're undergoing bilateral selective reinnervation, typically, you want to put a trach in just to get through the surgery. You're re-injuring both nerves when you do that procedure. You're not sure what it's going to be like when you wake up, plus you're accessing the posterior larynx and passing a graft behind the posterior cricoid into the PCA, so you get a decent amount of edema associated with that. Having a secure airway, I think, makes a lot of sense.
I think it's maybe under-recognized, we talk a lot about the airway, we talk a lot about voice restoration in those patients, but dysphagia is significant in those surgeries. Having a trach just from a pulmonary toilet standpoint, at least in the short term, is helpful.
A lot of times that trach can be removed fairly quickly once you're sure that the airway's secure and the swallow function's returning and they're progressing in the right direction. Definitely, if they've had the trach already, then you don't need to worry about that. If not, we would put a trach in at the time of surgery.
Patient Selection for Advanced Airway Surgery
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
Can we back up just a little bit and talk about how you're selecting a patient for that? Obviously, at really high risk, really highly involved surgery, very complex, difficult to explain, difficult to describe, how are you selecting and counseling patients, what are the criteria, and how do you prepare a patient for what is truly a very advanced operation with probably some degree of uncertainty?
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
I'm sorry. A question on top of your question, Steve. If you've already done the chordotomy, have we burned bridges to do the reinnervation?
[Dr. James Daniero]
Good question. Patient selection is critical in this. Ideally, no intervention on the larynx. If you're going to go through this procedure, you want to make sure that, number one, they have a shot at recovery. The rates of bilateral motion are somewhere around 30% or less. You want to get the best result possible. Those are patients that are generally younger and have a shorter term paralysis.
You want to make sure they're definitely paralyzed as well. Going to the OR for diagnostic EMG in the OR is often helpful. I know they do a lot of this in pediatrics. I don't know, Dr. Shah, your experience with it, but putting an EMG that we use typically for monitoring the face, we put those EMG electrodes right down into the vocal fold, and then have a spontaneously breathing semi-awake patient.
It's a little tricky to get our anesthesiologists on board with that because they're not used to doing DLs that way, but certainly in peds, we do them all the time. We say, this is protocol we do. It's a little harder in adults for sure, but making sure we can go into the PCA and into the TA muscle and get really high quality EMG rather than the office-based where we have a lot more difficulty getting a good PCA, posterior cricoarytenoid signal from office placement from a diagnostic standpoint.
For Botox, it's a different story, but from a diagnostic standpoint, it's a lot easier to do in the OR, and we can really get the placement appropriate and be sure we know what we're treating. Certainly, if it's a fixation standpoint, reinnervating a fixed cricoarytenoid joint is not going to help. Often, we have both.
We have, a lot of times, people that are intubated and they're managed for a while before they get their tracheotomy waiting for maybe nerve recovery to happen and they're not sure what the issue is. They extubate and intubate several times before they set aside, "Oh, they need a tracheotomy." Now you might have some injury on top of the nerve damage in the first place.
Just assuming, oh, yes, it was that thyroid surgery, it was the ACDF, without knowing the actual status of the joint is really important. I think that's critical and it should actually be evaluated and mentioned.
Then from an aspiration status, I think that is also important. Like I said, they suffer a hit from a swallowing standpoint with this pretty invasive surgery and we're re-injuring and reinitiating a lot of reinnervation by cutting the nerves again. You may have some setback from a dysphagia standpoint, it's going to get worse, and we want to make sure that they're a good candidate if they are not experiencing dysphagia preoperatively. Sometimes a swallow study would be very helpful.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
Great. Say somebody is listening to this and thinking about, "Okay, I have a patient and I wonder if I could refer them for this procedure and beyond even necessarily ideal," but are there some situations where you'd say, "Ah, this is just--" You mentioned dysphagia, you mentioned significant laryngeal injury, are there firm cutoffs where you'd say, "Gosh, yes, that's just not the right patient." Firm age cutoffs when we think about nerve regeneration, where do you think about that?
[Dr. James Daniero]
Time from injury, I think 18 months is a pretty good guide. Anything past 18 months out from injury, in the best scenarios, we're getting marginal results. They're life changing for the individual, but sometimes we're not getting a motion back in a good portion of these patients. We want to make sure that they're within a window that we think that we can help them.
From an age standpoint, we know from the unilateral reinnervation literature and Randy Peniel's study, classically, the cutoff was age of 52. Hopefully, there's a cutoff that's a little bit higher than that. What I use is about 60. Over that, again, we're trying to optimize the chances of reinnervation. It's a bit of a long shot to get that perfect bilateral innervation with function. The older the nerves are, the less likely they are to reinnervate in that way.
Oh, I was going to say one more thing about evaluation of the diaphragm. We have to make sure the phrenic is actually working before we go ahead and take one of the nerves. Certainly, you don't want to take a branch of the phrenic that weakens the diaphragm on their only working side. We have a inspiratory fluoroscopy for chest X-rays that are helpful and, from my standpoint, mandatory assessment beforehand.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
In terms of timing, how much time do you give for observation and watchful waiting to see if there's spontaneous recovery? Then you mentioned 18 months. If you are thinking some sort of reinnervation, are you trying to do it before it's been 18 months of time of injury? I figured with the destructive surgeries, we have time. We got some time for that. We actually want to wait the time properly before we start doing some of those. Talk to me about how you think about timing with all this.
[Dr. James Daniero]
There's a sweet spot there. You don't want to do it too early because there may be some nerve recovery. Obviously, longer than 18 months, your rate of success goes down. Somewhere between 9 and 18 months, I think, is that sweet spot. In a rare condition with a limited timeframe for repair, that referral pattern has to be just right in order for us to be able to help the patients.
It's really critical and I always-- it's one thing that I have our nurses to train to look out for to make sure, if they're getting close to the end of that window in the referral, I'm saying they need to be in here because they may lose options if we have them waiting several months beyond this window that we have.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
The destructive options, you would wait at least 18 months? Talk to me about the timing of that.
[Dr. James Daniero]
Yes, probably somewhere close to a year if we're looking at that. Give them as much possible time. Usually after nine months, you're probably not likely to recover, but waiting a little longer can't hurt in the off chance that you're one in very rare case that could recover later before you go to a destructive option. That's about a year.
Pacing the Larynx
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
Then I think we're getting toward wrapping up, but I'd like to bring up a little bit just the one other thing that's floating out there that I know you're not directly involved with but are quite familiar with, which is the idea of the bilateral pacing, which I think is also an exciting thing that we could see in the future that could be another additional option beyond the destructive options. My understanding is that it's in trials right now.
[Dr. James Daniero]
Yes, that's correct. It's a fascinating additional approach. This is, again, for paralysis, not just for immobility, but pacing the larynx with the latest version and the trial that they're running. This is at Vanderbilt University. Dr. Zealer, Gelbard, Garrett, and Netterville have all been involved in this really groundbreaking research.
They are doing a clinical trial using a deep brain stimulator, a certain type of deep brain stimulator that allows for the best stimulation, the best electrical signal to get the most mobility. That comes out of David Zealear’s work that he's been doing for the last 50 years, pretty much going back into the '70s, coming out of his dog studies, now progressing into humans, really fascinating work.
The ideal situation is that that is triggered by inspiratory function. The really fascinating finding from a lot of the research is, people do pretty well with it just having a metronome pace to it. They set it like a pacemaker and it opens and closes the vocal fold at a certain interval. What they found when they were doing the beagle studies is that they would put them on treadmills and they would accommodate, they would change the breathing pattern to the metronome in order to get the best airflow. They would habituate to it.
What they've seen in their human trials is the same thing. Now ideally, it would be seamless and triggered by inspiratory function tacked down to the phrenic, but it's still a significantly complex surgery in of itself, and I think future iterations may have the inspiratory trigger. Even just with a pacemaker setting where the leads are placed into the posterior cricoarytenoid muscle and tunneled into the muscle itself, direct stimulation of the muscle produces a significant opening of the airway.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
That's exciting. It sounds like potentially, the evolution could be that it's not even pacing the muscle directly, but it's purely a neurological surgery. It's purely just a DBS, or would it still have a laryngeal component?
[Dr. James Daniero]
Oh, no. This is a DBS stimulator that is placed with electrodes directly into the muscle, the PCA, for abduction. Not a brain-- they're using that implant, but not in the brain itself.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
That technology, but the pacing leads are placed in the neck, in the larynx to stimulate that posterior cricoarytenoid.
[Dr. James Daniero]
Correct.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
Very cool.
[Dr. James Daniero]
Pretty neat. There's been several patients that have been implanted. I think they're refining the technique, making it more generalizable before it's prime time, but it's on the verge. I tell patients about it. Once I do a destructive option for them, they may not get the best outcome with a pacer when it becomes available. For some of the younger patients that have to live with permanent bilateral paralysis for the rest of their lives, this does enter the conversation, even though it's still experimental and in trials.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
I think that's one of the things I picked up as well and that I've been thinking about is how we approach the long-term planning where if we have a patient with potentially 30, 40 years ahead of them, it makes a lot of sense to consider waiting, or either if we can, up front, look at the bilateral reinnervation or waiting to see how this technology evolves and have more options in the future.
[Dr. James Daniero]
It's been neat to follow Dr. Zealear's research. He's shown that directly stimulating the muscle, even after it's completely deinnervated, can still have significant motor function afterwards with the right stimulus. That's why the specific device is important because they've gone through several reinnervation of how the signal should be delivered, and it seems like this DBS is the latest. There may be additional pulse generators in the future, but it's getting there.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
You're saying the rate at which somebody breathes is set to the metronome pace. There's no external control. Usually, we accommodate--what they've seen at least in the beagle study is that the accommodation is made to keep up or continue with that pace to breathe.
[Dr. James Daniero]
I understand the first several patients that have been implanted as well have done the same where they accommodate, they learn to speak in certain phrases like that so that they can adjust for it. It becomes second nature as far as breathing and switching over breathing and talking.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
Is exertion or exercise limited because now my respiratory rate is that a certain-- or is it a range? I don't know. [laughs]
[Dr. James Daniero]
I think when they implant unilaterally, they see that there's a moderate improvement, and bilaterally, I think they've seen that there is a significant improvement in exercise tolerance. Again, I haven't done any of these procedures, this is not my research, but from what I understand, exercise tolerance is very good.
The other question that comes up is dysphagia. If your vocal folds are opening and closing in a set pattern, how does that impact if you're opening the vocal folds as they're swallowing? Again, there's a sensation of, oh, we know this pattern and timing that goes into it. Our bodies are amazing at adapting to various conditions. This is just a re-patterning of neurobehavior based on this stimulus of vocal folds having a certain contraction. As long as it's predictable, we adapt to it.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
That's probably where speech pathology can play a role, too, in terms of-- all these patients, I would imagine, whether you have the DBS or to just a standard trach, probably work with speech, whether it's breathing, voice, swallowing
[Dr. James Daniero]
I think it's great to mention that. I think it's underappreciated how in bilateral, a unilateral paralysis, we talk about what's the involvement of our speech pathologists and voice and swallowing function. I think in bilateral paralysis, it's often overlooked, oh, that's an airway problem, that's not a speech thing. I think they do have a significant benefit that they can offer in working with these patients from all three, voice, swallowing, and airway, potentially.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
Great. I think this is getting to a good place to wrap up. It's been really great having this conversation and hearing about the new things that are out there and the evolution of management, which, of course, takes a little while to filter out into the more generalized world, even of otolaryngology, let alone the many other practices in medicine to fill them in on what's new here.
What final thoughts would you have for our audience for a mix of general otolaryngologists and probably some laryngologists as well on the conversation, and as well as some lay folks who might come across this, and maybe patients themselves looking for guidance and things like that?
[Dr. James Daniero]
I think first thing is, we talked about it at the start of the hour here, was trying to differentiate between bilateral vocal fold paralysis and bilateral vocal fold immobility because they can be dramatically different situations as far as airway management and safety, and trying to be very specific about that diagnosis rather than use a general term that might miscommunicate information.
Two is really identifying that there's certain windows of opportunity in interventions. I think what is helpful is, historically, this is wait till you see recovery, secure the airway, offer a destructive option. Now that we have newer techniques and opportunities to intervene and potential future options, we may be a little bit more hesitant to offer destructive techniques, and to get patients to a laryngologist that may be able to offer some of those in the window that they have.
If it's a reinnervation consideration, a younger patient that is between that 9 and 18-month window, maybe an early referral just to make sure that they're able to hit that window for a potential surgery that could be life-changing for them.
[Dr. Gopi Shah]
That's awesome. Thank you so much, Jim. I've learned a ton as always from the professor here. For our audience, please check out RefluxRaft. We had a whole episode, episode 156. It's a really cool story. I just imagined your test kitchen. Are you on social media if any of our listeners want to reach out to you?
[Dr. James Daniero]
Yes. I have a more private Instagram account, but we do have a RefluxRaft social media account as well. I think I'm jimdanieroMD on Instagram, but I'm not too into the social media thing.
[Dr. Stephen Schoeff]
There is the UVA Voice Instagram as well.
[Dr. James Daniero]
That's right.
Podcast Contributors
Cite This Podcast
BackTable, LLC (Producer). (2025, May 20). Ep. 223 – Evaluation & Management of Bilateral Vocal Fold Paralysis [Audio podcast]. Retrieved from https://www.backtable.com
Disclaimer: The Materials available on BackTable.com are for informational and educational purposes only and are not a substitute for the professional judgment of a healthcare professional in diagnosing and treating patients. The opinions expressed by participants of the BackTable Podcast belong solely to the participants, and do not necessarily reflect the views of BackTable.
















